I am trudging my way through all my (approx 5,000) vinyl discs - probably for the last time. Just completed miscellaneous classical, folk, world music, jazz and pop and I have just started on the alphabetical classical section of my collection. At this moment I am going through my very small collection of orchestral J S Bach - never particularly liked J S but the other Bach's I could take. Also do not have much chamber/instrumental music. So for your exercise I have jumped to my Beethoven #5's.
The first one that should be mentioned is the one in the Bruno Walter NYPO cycle that was issued on Phillips "Classical Favourites" (mono) - this must have been particularly influential as it was the only one I had for a considerable period of time. Then came along the Swarowsky recording with the Sinfonia of London (mono) on World Record Club, followed quickly by Paul Kletzki and the Sudwestfunk Orchester, Baden-Baden on Concert Hall and the Krips with the LSO, in two recordings - one on Everest and the re-issue on World Record Club - all in stereo. I guess shortly after these recordings I purchased the Cluytens (CFP/BPO) and Kempe (CFP/Munich). but the one I keep going back to (you guessed it) is the one in the Leibowitz Reader's Digest set, again, all in stereo.
I have other vinyl recordings but the aforementioned have left an impression.
So the two "favourites" on vinyl have to be Walter and Leibowitz.
Just remembered another one which is memorable as we lived with this stereo vinyl version for such a long time that it must have influenced our perceptions of how the 5th should be played: Konwitschny and the Leipzig Gewandhaus on Fontana Special Label. Should be added to Walter and Leibowitz as one of my favourites.
I've got no idea on this one and certainly look forward to more recommendations. I recall liking a later 35mm merc (Dorati, LSO) but not the sound so much. I'll give the Leibowitz, Stereo Walter, and this a listen. Researching ebay and popsike: 1. top money for a Furtwangler mono 2. Classic has a reissue of Everest, but actually not release and only available in 3 LP test pressings! 3. The rare Szell SAX 2552 4. Ansermet on Decca/London has not been mentioned 5. Keilberth Telefunken stereo 6. Klemperer SAX, also availabe on ASD 7. The Konwitschny mentioned by Douglas actually goes for pretty good money (stereo Eterna)
It seems like most of the above are rare performances.
Had a quick search and found another dozen that are good but not quite in the Kleiber family league.
138 804 Karajan Berlin Philharmonic SXL 6396 Schmidt-Isserstedt VPO SBRG 72058 Walter Columbia SO SXLP 30081 Cluytens Berlin Philharmonic ASD 2960 Andre Previn LSO SAL 3667 (802 769 LY) Szell Concertgerouw VICS 1620 Munch Boston SO 2532 049 Giulini Los Angeles Philharmonic Digital Olympic 7129 Furtwangler RAI-Rome Orchestra ALP 1195 Furtwangler VPO SAX 2373 Klemperer Philharmonia (seem to have acquired 5 copies of this!) SAX 2552 Szell Cleveland Orchestra
I now have the Kleiber 5th in high def digital and the sound is really bad, so not much hope. Audiophiles please stay away. The combination I mention below (particularly the Leibowitz 3rd movement) is far better on vinyl. The HD digital Bruno Walter fifth has very good sound, and as discussed here and elsewhere is a unique performance worthy of any collection. For those wanting the best in modern sound recording (which is usually worse than the best vintage) the Bruggen SACD set with the Orchestra of the 18th Century is outstanding. Some reviewers have complained about some murkiness to these live recordings of the symphonies due to too much reverberation, but to these ears the sonics are amazing with original instrument sound to boot. Here is video of the Bruggen Fifth (probably of this live recording): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQT8Fi09Ng4
Bruggen has some extremely strong performances of the other symphonies, but I like the Bruggen Fifth well enough and the original instruments give a great feel into the heart of the composition. Despite the original instruments, the bass is exemplerary in these recordings along with the dynamic drive.
The Mercury with Dorati and the LSO is 35mm with up front sound. I find the 1st, 2nd, and 4th movements very, very likeable, but distortions freaks beware (AQL); Mercury records on the ragged edge and while impressive in the quiet passages there often are signs of distress. , The Leibowitz Readers digest kills the the third movement. Immediately, from the first horn blast shocks the listener sonically and musically. The rest of the movement is just fascinating. The Dorati pales in comparison. Bravo Liebowitz!
Much to my chagrin, my Bruno Walter 6 eye was infact Schubert 5 and 8! I did have a second pressing, but sonics were not in the class of the six eye of Beethoven 3 with Walter. My friend, Mr. Physics, who loves the fifth symphony did not care for the Walter. It was serviceable and the thrid movement picked up towards the end, but still not close to Leibowitz. Walter's fourth movement is excellent with a great sense of power, eclipsing the competition.
Though on some Von Karajan from the 1962 box set which has the advantage of being spread over two sides rather than one on the Mercury, unfortunately it was sonically and musically second rate.
Listened online to DGG 2530 516 Carlos Kleiber, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra and also the Leibowtiz to get a rough sonic fix. The Kleiber was a good overall performance and strong in all movements, but the Leibowitz beats it in the third movement. I'm sure a six eye of the Walter would exceed it sonically and musically in the fourth movement. The steroid ladden Mercury sound does very, very well musically and sonically for the first two movements, though these movements were not as asidously compared. This a quick review and I expect the 1975 DG Kleiber is obtainable, so that may be the smart buy and the best, most coherent Beethoven 5.
Found a nice clean Bruno Walter 6 eye Columbia and the sonics are quite fine. This is with the Columbia Symphony (members of NYPO under another name) and it is an enjoyable record for performance and sound. The fourth movement is special.
I'll throw my choices in the hat:
ReplyDeletePhilips 802 769 LY George Szell, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra
DGG 2530 516 Carlos Kleiber, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
OK - here we go.
ReplyDeleteI am trudging my way through all my (approx 5,000) vinyl discs - probably for the last time. Just completed miscellaneous classical, folk, world music, jazz and pop and I have just started on the alphabetical classical section of my collection. At this moment I am going through my very small collection of orchestral J S Bach - never particularly liked J S but the other Bach's I could take. Also do not have much chamber/instrumental music. So for your exercise I have jumped to my Beethoven #5's.
The first one that should be mentioned is the one in the Bruno Walter NYPO cycle that was issued on Phillips "Classical Favourites" (mono) - this must have been particularly influential as it was the only one I had for a considerable period of time. Then came along the Swarowsky recording with the Sinfonia of London (mono) on World Record Club, followed quickly by Paul Kletzki and the Sudwestfunk Orchester, Baden-Baden on Concert Hall and the Krips with the LSO, in two recordings - one on Everest and the re-issue on World Record Club - all in stereo. I guess shortly after these recordings I purchased the Cluytens (CFP/BPO) and Kempe (CFP/Munich). but the one I keep going back to (you guessed it) is the one in the Leibowitz Reader's Digest set, again, all in stereo.
I have other vinyl recordings but the aforementioned have left an impression.
So the two "favourites" on vinyl have to be Walter and Leibowitz.
Cheers - happy listening.
Douglas (UK)
Just remembered another one which is memorable as we lived with this stereo vinyl version for such a long time that it must have influenced our perceptions of how the 5th should be played: Konwitschny and the Leipzig Gewandhaus on Fontana Special Label. Should be added to Walter and Leibowitz as one of my favourites.
ReplyDeleteCheers.
Douglas, thank you as usual for your thoughtful recommendations. It's great to hear some less commonly cited titles. Duly noted!
DeleteI've got no idea on this one and certainly look forward to more recommendations. I recall liking a later 35mm merc (Dorati, LSO) but not the sound so much. I'll give the Leibowitz, Stereo Walter, and this a listen. Researching ebay and popsike:
ReplyDelete1. top money for a Furtwangler mono
2. Classic has a reissue of Everest, but actually not release and only available in 3 LP test pressings!
3. The rare Szell SAX 2552
4. Ansermet on Decca/London has not been mentioned
5. Keilberth Telefunken stereo
6. Klemperer SAX, also availabe on ASD
7. The Konwitschny mentioned by Douglas actually goes for pretty good money (stereo Eterna)
It seems like most of the above are rare performances.
Favorites
ReplyDeleteLXT 2851 Erich Kleiber and the Concertgebouw
2530 516 Carlos Kleiber and the Vienna Philharmonic
What I've been playing recently and enjoying
CDN-1001 Serge Koussevitzky and the Boston SO
CTL 7083 William Steinberg and the Pittsburgh SO
This afternoon I tried the Cluytens/BPO/CFP again - really exciting and brilliant recording for 1959.
ReplyDeleteMust try Bohm/VPO/DGG box set again soon - seldom given accolades nowadays.
Cheers,
Douglas (UK)
Had a quick search and found another dozen that are good but not quite in the Kleiber family league.
ReplyDelete138 804 Karajan Berlin Philharmonic
SXL 6396 Schmidt-Isserstedt VPO
SBRG 72058 Walter Columbia SO
SXLP 30081 Cluytens Berlin Philharmonic
ASD 2960 Andre Previn LSO
SAL 3667 (802 769 LY) Szell Concertgerouw
VICS 1620 Munch Boston SO
2532 049 Giulini Los Angeles Philharmonic Digital
Olympic 7129 Furtwangler RAI-Rome Orchestra
ALP 1195 Furtwangler VPO
SAX 2373 Klemperer Philharmonia (seem to have acquired 5 copies of this!)
SAX 2552 Szell Cleveland Orchestra
Szell showiing how it is done:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlyUti7BbCY
Thanks to all for your comments and recommendations. It seems like we've put together a pretty good survey of different performances and recordings!
ReplyDeleteI want more information. I don't think we have a super strong recommendation out of this group. I don't see a lot of strong stereo contenders.
DeleteCarlos Kleiber stands head and shoulders above the rest of the stereo recordings
ReplyDeleteI would have to second this notion!
DeleteA great performance for sure. Almost certainly not great sound, a 1975 DG.
DeleteI now have the Kleiber 5th in high def digital and the sound is really bad, so not much hope. Audiophiles please stay away. The combination I mention below (particularly the Leibowitz 3rd movement) is far better on vinyl. The HD digital Bruno Walter fifth has very good sound, and as discussed here and elsewhere is a unique performance worthy of any collection. For those wanting the best in modern sound recording (which is usually worse than the best vintage) the Bruggen SACD set with the Orchestra of the 18th Century is outstanding. Some reviewers have complained about some murkiness to these live recordings of the symphonies due to too much reverberation, but to these ears the sonics are amazing with original instrument sound to boot. Here is video of the Bruggen Fifth (probably of this live recording):
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQT8Fi09Ng4
Bruggen has some extremely strong performances of the other symphonies, but I like the Bruggen Fifth well enough and the original instruments give a great feel into the heart of the composition. Despite the original instruments, the bass is exemplerary in these recordings along with the dynamic drive.
The Mercury with Dorati and the LSO is 35mm with up front sound. I find the 1st, 2nd, and 4th movements very, very likeable, but distortions freaks beware (AQL); Mercury records on the ragged edge and while impressive in the quiet passages there often are signs of distress. , The Leibowitz Readers digest kills the the third movement. Immediately, from the first horn blast shocks the listener sonically and musically. The rest of the movement is just fascinating. The Dorati pales in comparison. Bravo Liebowitz!
ReplyDeleteMuch to my chagrin, my Bruno Walter 6 eye was infact Schubert 5 and 8! I did have a second pressing, but sonics were not in the class of the six eye of Beethoven 3 with Walter. My friend, Mr. Physics, who loves the fifth symphony did not care for the Walter. It was serviceable and the thrid movement picked up towards the end, but still not close to Leibowitz. Walter's fourth movement is excellent with a great sense of power, eclipsing the competition.
Though on some Von Karajan from the 1962 box set which has the advantage of being spread over two sides rather than one on the Mercury, unfortunately it was sonically and musically second rate.
Listened online to DGG 2530 516 Carlos Kleiber, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra and also the Leibowtiz to get a rough sonic fix. The Kleiber was a good overall performance and strong in all movements, but the Leibowitz beats it in the third movement. I'm sure a six eye of the Walter would exceed it sonically and musically in the fourth movement. The steroid ladden Mercury sound does very, very well musically and sonically for the first two movements, though these movements were not as asidously compared. This a quick review and I expect the 1975 DG Kleiber is obtainable, so that may be the smart buy and the best, most coherent Beethoven 5.
Found a nice clean Bruno Walter 6 eye Columbia and the sonics are quite fine. This is with the Columbia Symphony (members of NYPO under another name) and it is an enjoyable record for performance and sound. The fourth movement is special.
Delete