What are your favorite vinyl performances and recordings of Beethoven's 1st and 8th Symphonies? Please click on the comments link below to tell us your top choices.
I'll second those recommendations, Mark, and add to it :
Beethoven Symphony #1: Pierre Monteux, VPO, RCA LSC-2491 Otto Klemperer, Philharmonia, Columbia SAX 2318 George Szell, Cleveland Orchestra, Epic BC 1292 or Columbia SAX 2565
Beethoven Symphony #8: Pierre Monteux, VPO, RCA LSC-2491 Otto Klemperer, Philharmonia, Columbia SAX 2318 George Szell, Cleveland Orchestra, Epic BC 1254 or Columbia SAX 2493
Still "plodding" through my vinyl Beethoven symphonies - will let you have my findings before the end of the week. Thought I would do all in one go as I was passing this way anyrate. The concertos and vocal still to go through.
I have yet to listen to the Concert Hall, Bohm/VPO and Leibowitz/RPO complete symphony sets still.
1.Have you given any consideration as to what will follow in this "critic's corner" series? My plea - could you ensure that it follows in alphabetical order, so that I will not have to backtrack in my personal alphabetical foray through my collection. Will the next be BERG or BERLIOZ, or any of the Beethoven concertos? Or give me a rest by selecting some chamber/instrumental music - as I have virtually none. No Bach please - I have just trundled through that one! I Can see a lot of Berlioz on the horizon - that is, 7-10 inches away, to go through in the next month or two.
2. It would be interesting to know how other correspondents file their recorded music. FWIW I follow the system adopted by the Penguin review guides.
I hope you are enjoying your foray through Beethoven! I haven't given much thought yet to the next series of readers' polls but we'll most likely move away from Beethoven for a while. We'll keep you posted.
Funny you should bring up filing. I've gone through a couple different systems, and I know my friend ejeden recently reshuffled much of his collection, too. The way that I've settled on filing is actually by label, then by catalog number. My RCAs, Mercuries, London/Deccas, EMI ASDs, Columbia SAXes, Philips, and DG are all grouped together and organized in ascending catalog number. It does mean I have to search for a title by remembering album info, but over the years, I've gotten used to it. I think Meles also arranges his LPs by label but I will let him comment. I know others who organize by music type -- orchestral, concertos, chamber, etc.
I organize by label for RCA Shaded Dogs, Mercury Living Presence, London bluebacks(Deccas in with London), EMI ASD, SAX, CFP etc, Lyrita, Nonesuch, and audiophile labels. Lyrita works well because it is all British. Nonesuch is usually very eclectic stuff too. The rest is alphabetical though I do have a haphazard section for the better sounding pieces I've discovered. I do keep Opera and Medieval/Renaissance type music seperate and even now have an audiophile opera section by composer. I organize by music type under each composer.
My philosophy is that I know my audiophile stuff like the back of my hand. The reality as I get older is that I am beginning to question this method. I am about to go through a minor beat down/organization of the collection. I have so much stuff, I don't even know what I have so always finding things to listen too.
I'd love to enter it all in some awesome database with stamper information and everything, but just too much. I suspect Andy and Tin Ear of having matrix notes for many things!
Beethoven - waiting for a change. I think I am experiencing overkill - but it's the only methodical way I can think of, as my collection is filed alphabetically by composer (and within by the different types of works; orchestral (suites, overtures), symphonies, concerti, ballet, opera, then chamber/instrumental)) - but will be interested in how others do it.
Because there is a limit on the number of characters that this post can contain - I have split my missive into two. Sorry for the length!!
PART 1 (2)
Hello Albert and other correspondents of this blogspot,
At long last and after what seems an interminable period of time – my evaluation of the vinyl Beethoven symphonies that I have in my collection. Some address the point of this particular topic (symphonies 1 and 8) but I have taken the liberty of giving my evaluations of all the LvB symphonies that I have listened to thus far. Sorry no time to check/verify dates, hence many ??? marks:
Symphony #1:
Kempe/MPO (1974) CFP (stereo) 8/10 (with Symphony #2) Walter/NYPO (1947) Philips Classical Favourites (mono) GBL 7/10 Fricsay/BPO (1953) DG Heliodor Stereo Transcription 89613 8/10 Kletzki/SudwestFunkOrchester (1963?) Concert Hall (stereo) 6/10 Rosenstock/Mannheim National ThOrch (????) transferred from Livingston reel to reel tape to digital by David Gideon – still available for D/L from his excellent website ReDiscovery RD126. 8/10
Cluytens/BPO (????) CFP (stereo) 10/10 Kleiber (E)/Concertgebouw (1953) Decca Eclipse (electric stereo) 7/10 Groves/RPO (1968) Funk and Wagnalls – “Family Library of Great Music” - subscription series. (stereo) 6/10. I performed LvB under Groves when I played in the Philharmonic in Liverpool.
Symphony #7:
Krips/LSO (????) WRC (stereo) 7/10 Cluytens/BPO (????) CFP (stereo) 9/10 Konwitschny/LG (????) Fontana (stereo). Couldn't find my vinyl copy so sampled my digital D/L. (with Symphony #8) – was always one of my favourites – still is: 9/10
Symphony #9:
Shuricht/PCO (1958) CFP (stereo) Underwhelming. Expecting more. Love the horns. 6/10
I was pleasantly surprised how the CFP pressings sounded – good silent surfaces and excellent dynamic range (except for the Schuricht S9 – second hand, just purchased following other reader’s comments). I always thought that CFP meant “Clicks and Crackles for Pleasure”. So many times I had to exchange my copies at the shop to get a good one.
2. Bohm/VPO (1970) DGG - all: excellently performed and recorded. Stately, suave, elegant, sophisticated. 9/10. Cost me only £5.00 at W H Smith's in 1976. Sounds very good – very happy to live with this cycle, but……..
3. Leibowitz/RPO (1960/1) Reader's Digest “Beethoven Treasury” Box Set (10 LPs) – symphonies, concerti, piano pieces. Stupendous interpretations, performances and recordings. Visceral. 10/10.
In conclusion, my preferences are for the Cluytens/BPO and Leibowitz/RPO cycles, whether they be in vinyl, CD or digital D/L format, and they will be the choice that I will revisit when I need a bit of LvB. Just ordered another Cluytens set on CD instead of having to access my big LvB box (50 CDs)
Interesting from what I recollect, no mention by anyone of Karajan or Schmidt-Isserstedt!!??
Now off to Scotland to refresh my ears – and that doesn't include Scottish music!
Many thanks for your extensive survey! I can see now why you might want a diversion from Beethoven. That's more Beethoven than I've heard in the last year. I think your insight will be very useful to our readers. I have not heard the Leibowitz/RPO but with your recommendation, it might be something that I will have to look into. I think that my colleague Meles is also a fan. I have the Karajan box set but somehow don't get to it much. I'm not sure if it's interpretation or sound (which is actually decent for DG), but it's not one of my reference sets. I think I've only owned Schmidt-Isserstedt's 9th on Decca narrowband. It was entertaining but didn't leave a strong impression on me. Enjoy your time in Scotland!
As a relative newcomer here I may have missed the 7th Symphony. So here are my top 4 in preference. 1. Guido Cantelli Philharmonia HMV ASD 254 2. Franz Konwitschny Philips Fontana SFL 14084 3. Erich Kleiber Concertgebouw Decca Ace of Clubs ACL 57 4 Carlo Maria Giulini Chicago Symphony EMI ASD 2737.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBeethoven Symphony 1 Pierre Monteaux VPO RCA SB2127
ReplyDeleteBeethoven Symphony 8 Otto Klemperer Philharmonia Columbia SAX 2318
I'll second those recommendations, Mark, and add to it :
ReplyDeleteBeethoven Symphony #1:
Pierre Monteux, VPO, RCA LSC-2491
Otto Klemperer, Philharmonia, Columbia SAX 2318
George Szell, Cleveland Orchestra, Epic BC 1292 or Columbia SAX 2565
Beethoven Symphony #8:
Pierre Monteux, VPO, RCA LSC-2491
Otto Klemperer, Philharmonia, Columbia SAX 2318
George Szell, Cleveland Orchestra, Epic BC 1254 or Columbia SAX 2493
Hi there,
ReplyDeleteGetting behind this week - enjoying getting out now that the kids have gone back to school.
Can you give me about another week and I should have listened to all my vinyl recordings of symphonies 1 and 8 by then? Please indulge me.
Thanking you.
Cheers,
Douglas (UK)
Douglas, thank you for checking in! Yes, please take your time. We'd love to hear your thoughts.
DeleteSincerely,
Albert
Hi Albert,
ReplyDeleteStill "plodding" through my vinyl Beethoven symphonies - will let you have my findings before the end of the week. Thought I would do all in one go as I was passing this way anyrate. The concertos and vocal still to go through.
I have yet to listen to the Concert Hall, Bohm/VPO and Leibowitz/RPO complete symphony sets still.
1.Have you given any consideration as to what will follow in this "critic's corner" series? My plea - could you ensure that it follows in alphabetical order, so that I will not have to backtrack in my personal alphabetical foray through my collection. Will the next be BERG or BERLIOZ, or any of the Beethoven concertos? Or give me a rest by selecting some chamber/instrumental music - as I have virtually none. No Bach please - I have just trundled through that one! I Can see a lot of Berlioz on the horizon - that is, 7-10 inches away, to go through in the next month or two.
2. It would be interesting to know how other correspondents file their recorded music. FWIW I follow the system adopted by the Penguin review guides.
I'll be in touch.
Cheers,
Douglas (UK)
Hi Douglas,
DeleteI hope you are enjoying your foray through Beethoven! I haven't given much thought yet to the next series of readers' polls but we'll most likely move away from Beethoven for a while. We'll keep you posted.
Funny you should bring up filing. I've gone through a couple different systems, and I know my friend ejeden recently reshuffled much of his collection, too. The way that I've settled on filing is actually by label, then by catalog number. My RCAs, Mercuries, London/Deccas, EMI ASDs, Columbia SAXes, Philips, and DG are all grouped together and organized in ascending catalog number. It does mean I have to search for a title by remembering album info, but over the years, I've gotten used to it. I think Meles also arranges his LPs by label but I will let him comment. I know others who organize by music type -- orchestral, concertos, chamber, etc.
Sincerely,
Albert
I organize by label for RCA Shaded Dogs, Mercury Living Presence, London bluebacks(Deccas in with London), EMI ASD, SAX, CFP etc, Lyrita, Nonesuch, and audiophile labels. Lyrita works well because it is all British. Nonesuch is usually very eclectic stuff too. The rest is alphabetical though I do have a haphazard section for the better sounding pieces I've discovered. I do keep Opera and Medieval/Renaissance type music seperate and even now have an audiophile opera section by composer. I organize by music type under each composer.
DeleteMy philosophy is that I know my audiophile stuff like the back of my hand. The reality as I get older is that I am beginning to question this method. I am about to go through a minor beat down/organization of the collection. I have so much stuff, I don't even know what I have so always finding things to listen too.
I'd love to enter it all in some awesome database with stamper information and everything, but just too much. I suspect Andy and Tin Ear of having matrix notes for many things!
Thanking you for your quick response.
ReplyDeleteBeethoven - waiting for a change. I think I am experiencing overkill - but it's the only methodical way I can think of, as my collection is filed alphabetically by composer (and within by the different types of works; orchestral (suites, overtures), symphonies, concerti, ballet, opera, then chamber/instrumental)) - but will be interested in how others do it.
Cheers,
Douglas (UK)
Hi there,
ReplyDeleteBecause there is a limit on the number of characters that this post can contain - I have split my missive into two. Sorry for the length!!
PART 1 (2)
Hello Albert and other correspondents of this blogspot,
At long last and after what seems an interminable period of time – my evaluation of the vinyl Beethoven symphonies that I have in my collection. Some address the point of this particular topic (symphonies 1 and 8) but I have taken the liberty of giving my evaluations of all the LvB symphonies that I have listened to thus far. Sorry no time to check/verify dates, hence many ??? marks:
Symphony #1:
Kempe/MPO (1974) CFP (stereo) 8/10 (with Symphony #2)
Walter/NYPO (1947) Philips Classical Favourites (mono) GBL 7/10
Fricsay/BPO (1953) DG Heliodor Stereo Transcription 89613 8/10
Kletzki/SudwestFunkOrchester (1963?) Concert Hall (stereo) 6/10
Rosenstock/Mannheim National ThOrch (????) transferred from Livingston reel to reel tape to digital by David Gideon – still available for D/L from his excellent website ReDiscovery RD126. 8/10
Symphony #8:
Swarowsky/Vienna St Op Orch (????) WRC TP35 (mono) 6/10
Walter/NYPO (????) Philips Classical Favourites GBL5619 (mono) 5/10 (with Symphony #7)
Konwitschny/LGO Fontana (????) (stereo) (with symphony #8) 9/10
Steinberg/Pittsburg (????) MFP (mono) 5/10 plus Symphony #5
Krips/LSO (????) WRC (stereo) 7/10
Symphonies 2 and 4:
Walter/NYPO (????) Philips Classical Favourites GBL5616 (mono) 5/10
Symphony #3:
Krips/LSO (????) WRC (stereo) 6/10
Sargent/RPO (1961) MFP-Fanfare 6/10
Fricsay/BPO (1959) DG Heliodor 5/10
Kletzki/SudwestFunkOrchester (1963?) Concert Hall 7/10
Symphony #4:
Krips/LSO (????) WRC (stereo) 6/10
Cluytens/BPO (1960) CFP (stereo) 9/10
Symphony #5:
Steinberg/Pittsburg (????) MFP (mono) 5/10 (with Symphony #8)
Cluytens/BPO (????) CFP (stereo) 9/10 (with symphony #8)
Kletzki/SudwestFunkOrchester (????) Concert Hall (stereo) (with Schubert Unfinished) 5/10
Symphony #6:
Cluytens/BPO (????) CFP (stereo) 10/10
Kleiber (E)/Concertgebouw (1953) Decca Eclipse (electric stereo) 7/10
Groves/RPO (1968) Funk and Wagnalls – “Family Library of Great Music” - subscription series. (stereo) 6/10. I performed LvB under Groves when I played in the Philharmonic in Liverpool.
Symphony #7:
Krips/LSO (????) WRC (stereo) 7/10
Cluytens/BPO (????) CFP (stereo) 9/10
Konwitschny/LG (????) Fontana (stereo). Couldn't find my vinyl copy so sampled my digital D/L. (with Symphony #8) – was always one of my favourites – still is: 9/10
Symphony #9:
Shuricht/PCO (1958) CFP (stereo) Underwhelming. Expecting more. Love the horns. 6/10
I was pleasantly surprised how the CFP pressings sounded – good silent surfaces and excellent dynamic range (except for the Schuricht S9 – second hand, just purchased following other reader’s comments). I always thought that CFP meant “Clicks and Crackles for Pleasure”. So many times I had to exchange my copies at the shop to get a good one.
PART 2 (2)
ReplyDeleteNow for the three box sets of the complete symphonies that I have on vinyl:
1. Concert Hall (all stereo):
Symphony #1 – already mentioned (Kletzki)
Symphony #2 + 4 Monteux/NDR Hamburg (1960) Full frontal. Exciting. Good sound. 8/10
Symphony #3 – already mentioned (Kletzki)
Symphony #5 – Kletzki/SudwestFunk (????) Serviceable. 5/10
Symphony #6 – Munch/RotterdamPO (1967) Variable – dreary to frisky. Dry sound. Last 2 mvmts exciting. 7/10
Symphony #7 - Otterloo/Vienna (Symphony?) Festival Orch (mid 1960's) Exciting. Poor sonics 6/10
Symphony #8 - ditto. Slightly better sonics 7/10
Symphony #9 - Otterloo/HaguePO – previously reported
2. Bohm/VPO (1970) DGG - all: excellently performed and recorded. Stately, suave, elegant, sophisticated. 9/10. Cost me only £5.00 at W H Smith's in 1976. Sounds very good – very happy to live with this cycle, but……..
3. Leibowitz/RPO (1960/1) Reader's Digest “Beethoven Treasury” Box Set (10 LPs) – symphonies, concerti, piano pieces. Stupendous interpretations, performances and recordings. Visceral. 10/10.
In conclusion, my preferences are for the Cluytens/BPO and Leibowitz/RPO cycles, whether they be in vinyl, CD or digital D/L format, and they will be the choice that I will revisit when I need a bit of LvB. Just ordered another Cluytens set on CD instead of having to access my big LvB box (50 CDs)
Interesting from what I recollect, no mention by anyone of Karajan or Schmidt-Isserstedt!!??
Now off to Scotland to refresh my ears – and that doesn't include Scottish music!
Hope this is useful to someone?
Cheers,
Douglas (UK)
Sorry - I see that Karajan and Schmidt-Isserstedt were mentioned by AndyW in connection with 9th.
ReplyDeleteCheers,
Douglas (UK)
Dear Douglas,
DeleteMany thanks for your extensive survey! I can see now why you might want a diversion from Beethoven. That's more Beethoven than I've heard in the last year. I think your insight will be very useful to our readers. I have not heard the Leibowitz/RPO but with your recommendation, it might be something that I will have to look into. I think that my colleague Meles is also a fan. I have the Karajan box set but somehow don't get to it much. I'm not sure if it's interpretation or sound (which is actually decent for DG), but it's not one of my reference sets. I think I've only owned Schmidt-Isserstedt's 9th on Decca narrowband. It was entertaining but didn't leave a strong impression on me. Enjoy your time in Scotland!
Best wishes,
Albert
As a relative newcomer here I may have missed the 7th Symphony. So here are my top 4 in preference.
ReplyDelete1. Guido Cantelli Philharmonia HMV ASD 254
2. Franz Konwitschny Philips Fontana SFL 14084
3. Erich Kleiber Concertgebouw Decca Ace of Clubs ACL 57
4 Carlo Maria Giulini Chicago Symphony EMI ASD 2737.
Hi Mark - thanks for your input! Actually, I hadn't gotten to the 7th yet, but thank you in advance for your recommendations!!
Delete